For the collaborative methodologies like onboarding or coming up with a HowTo for it, I would rather leave that to the more human side experts on that matter. @bridgetime, do you have people in mind who would want to join right now and therefore would need or benefit from an onboarding process being in place?
My more technical attempt to combine all the different things into a virtual space can't progress that fast as you would like to see the onboarding process to be developed, and maybe you have entirely different solutions in your mind, which is fine, and besides the design of the process, the repository/library could form for the actual onboarding to pull material from.
Best way to invite people, that implies that we find potentially interested people first or we spread the message very wide regardless of an target audience in mind. If we get some leads (?), follow ups established because of that, we might want offer a way for people to indicate their interest, and it could be a mailing list, but almost shouldn't (not in the traditional sense), but entering them as passively associated/observing (until they become active), offering them some intro as well as the option to look at what the most recent developments are, hinting that the older history is also available, and then have them exploring what topics they want to follow and what they want to offer. Low-frequency signals to not overwhelm them, with as least friction as possible (maybe navigatable by demand, enriching their own profile/identity in the process). Very, very vague, I know, if at all supported by software somehow, and not my most immediate concern, but what if you would see each participant with his core statements and then the whole feed attached, but also letting people choose if they want to enter the space via the people metric, topic metric (if we can do that reasonably well), and then dispatching to group activities, to a 1on1, CCC, action items, invitation to relevant discussions, whatever else mechanisms will be in pace to direct the new person towards what they want to engage with?
Maybe we could alternatively try out to collaborate on collaborative writing, to write an overview/introduction for the purpose of keeping it up to date (how would we ensure that, every time of onboarding checking if something is obsolete, regularly scheduled review?), or video-clipping such a thing, so it can immediately be made available to whomever considers joining? Just some suggestions. What would a new person (want and actually) get out of the process and what would we feel important to fit in there (with or without conflict between the two), do we have different approaches prepared based on who the new people are and where they come from (technical side vs. human system thinkers, as one example)?
One interesting thing would be to ask new people to dump THEIR list of own relevant material, so we learn about it, might eventually be able to add it to our lists, get to know them, find alignments or differences to respond to them, make them feel welcome.
@skreutzer that’s a brilliant idea... would you be able to take the lead and project manage/recruit a team to make that happen? I think it’s a brilliant idea
Is our sandbox at the moment where we are all admins and can collaborate and write and connect with equall privalages to iterate and make video content writing etc... sky’s the limit.
Send me a private message on facebook and let’s connect and I can give you admin access if you don’t have it yet... it’s a brilliant idea to have new members get access as contributors, than authors etc...
We have fun playgrounds for GCC all over the Web and new members would get value out of curating and editing content from all the Zoom calls. It would accomplish two things at once... understanding of what GCC is about as well as inclusion into the community through spontaneous collaboration, discussion and creation of new content by sharing what they reflect from the old conversation content
@skreutzer if we’re not friends on facebook yet... here is my profile https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=706812984
@bridgetime what you are asking is a different way of working, of no interest to me. Please count me out.
The coders in the engine room can take care of the details, all I should have to focus on as a member of the team is my adorable local triad segment. :-) @bridgetime
at the end of the day in order to unwind from trying to save the world, I play MineCraft, but the sessions are getting shorter and shorter as the momentum required to bring about a clean future is not going to happen unless I wake up and make it happen.
@atvpn could you enjoy the game like my grandson does, while admitting that we can know nothing about the future, not even whether your waking up will contribute anything to the 'clean future' you want to bring about?
Yes. It was after looking at the work of others that I discoverer the ideas behind the ground up movement the global fabric viral weavers network is evolving along with local GCC members in regional hubs. Governed by well rewarded trusted servants that sit on the round table and do some of the open source coding suggestions. In an open cloud space trust comes from smart contracts and private p2p networks. The old system is almost dead but we wise not to switch off it's life support until we agree this is the direction to head in.
@bridgetime - I think the frustration you express is common to co-creative efforts and is really one of the biggest challenges in bridging the gap between the existing paradigm and the one we all hope to manifest. The reality is that many people have many obligations and most are trying to bridge this new way of being with the reality of needing to make money and get things done in other pursuits - so their attention is divided. Co-creativity is exciting because it offers the potential for new ways of collectively getting things done. But the flip side is that we have to actually figure out how to get things done collectively, with decentralized leadership. I've been working on a pretty extensive write up about this very challenge (http://bit.ly/calltococreate). I am not sure exactly which range of things GCC is looking at accomplishing. If there is a bullet list or agenda of some sort, then I would suggest taking the highlights and turning them into discussion groups on Sutra where some action items might be distilled. If no such agenda exists, then a discussion group can be created for that very purpose and as specific areas of exploration emerge, those can spawn new discussions.
I would say the most important thing to recognize is that it isn't necessarily about moving forward on action items at this point in time. I'd say it's more about figuring out how a co-creative process can work in real world practice with a group of well intentioned people such as the GCC. The biggest problem we're solving is actually the one that you're frustrated about.
Many good points here Lorenz! This seems like the key challenge, what to do and how to do it, from many different places, by many different people.
Thank you @lorenz for your comments. And I apologise that I experienced the frustration of @bridgetime as so intense I could not communicate with it. That may still be true. Because exactly what you call 'insanity' is what I want to explore, and what I believe we are exploring in GCC.
I just wrote now, for the second time, a longer written response. And for the second time, before it got posted, it disappeared. The first time is was the battery, the second time there was no reason for it. The app just closed, and when I came back, the text was gone.
It feels strange to mention this as a relevant fact in this conversation, but I will say it straight out that for me personally, bugs in computer programs, as well as the impatience and disappointment and loss of energy and flow and inspiration that goes along with it is ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS why I have written so much less than I want to, and shared so much less than I want to.
I wrote a long post about the fact that we already have been doing something very important, in the practice of the ongoing recorded video conversation, which adresses one of the most important global challenges directly: how we speak about big and important and complex existential questions, what attitudes and roles and relationships happen in this process, and the degree to which this process assists positive relationships as well as increased understanding and inspiration.
Then I wrote about how there has been a strong interest in cocreating written material. I want to do this, and I want to take Joshuas challenge on, because it is the right thing to do now and it goes perfectly along with everything else we have been doing.
But then I got sidetracked by a software bug, the results of an hour or my life was lost, and I remembered how often this has happened before, how painful it is every time it happens, how meaningless and stupid and unnecessary it feels every time, and how OFTEN it happens nevertheless. Even with brand new devices and updated programs. The lack of stability and predictability of the software systems we use, systems which currently more or less control our entire lives, seems almost ridiculous.
So I think this is one of those “elephants in the room” which have a far greater impact on the ability of teams of peopke around the world to collaborate effectively. These people around the world are connected with computer programs, and these programs generally suck, and have undergone very little intelligent evolution in terms of basic usability inspite of enormous amounts of time and kiney and energy having been thrown into it.
Yes we have to work with the software which exists, and work around it as best we can, but it feels very relevant to bring into the conversation the fact that these unstable programs create continuous obstacles for effective collaboration between people around the world, and that a more intelligent informational architecture to connect us all might be an enormous short-cut to better collaboration between people around the world.
@glenngaasland - as developer of this software, I apologize for the bugs experienced. Honestly, every time I hear reports of the problems people experience on Sutra, it pains me deeply both out of a sense of self consciousness and out of concern for that person's experience. As sole developer of this platform, I've really had to push the bounds of my capabilities to continue to iterate and develop something of this scale. In the process, I'm balancing the necessity for basic stability (that particular issue you mentioned is very difficult to squash because it's highly intermittent and difficult to replicate) with developing and experimenting with new approaches to generative interaction and emergent knowledge (stuff like notes, resources, and tagging and a whole slew of yet unbuilt features). More broadly, this work is oriented to addressing the very practical challenges of co-creation at scale and I believe that the only way to earnestly address these challenges at a software level is through direct experience and experimentation and I'm excited to iterate around this with people from the GCC. I am grateful for your patience and acknowledge your frustration. It is my most sincere intention to make sure this software never wastes your time with annoying bugs.
Thank you @lorenz, really useful to read your views about where we are with our GCC efforts. I took your suggestion and have started a group for "Earth Girl" an idea that Tammy and I are working on and hope to have others connect to
@lorenz Keep up the good work :) It is an awesome platform and concept you have here. Of course a lot of experience and experimentation is needed... It is a learning process and I hope we can all be helpful so it becomes a success!
While I empathise with Glenn's frustration at the instability of software, I feel we need to place more emphasis on our personal responsibility for our reactions. Of course we want our machines to work as efficiently as possible. But we can also view our experiences as teaching us new ways to be, every event a lesson in generosity and kindness. If I'm getting frustrated, is there some way that I am not fully accepting the reality of how things are? Is something telling me I need to slow down?
Our relationship to machines in a sense mirrors our relationship to ourselves and to the world. impatience with machines which are tools, extensions of ourselves, can be a way of attacking ourselves. Can we expand rather than contract?
Yes I am all for that Anna. All reactions can learn us something useful. And we are definitely personally responsible for them.
That said, I see people who are active on the internet complaining about things far away from them, talking about “big problems”, which are actually very trivial. Like Facebook “harvesting our data”, the data we choose to share openly ourselves, on a platform we are using for free. While hardly anyone mentions that there is an elementary software bug in Facebook messenger, which has been there for a long time, making it far more time-and-energy-consuming than it needs to be to write a simple written message, especially if you write a longer message and edit and change details along the way. Which I do in almost every message I write. And which I expect that others are doing too.
These are the moments when human beings communicate with one another. Sometimes these are the moments when important thoughts are formulated. It is bad enough that we are looking into small rectangular screens during those moments. When in addition to this, we see text jumping up and down in front of us, and putting our finger at one place in the text we are suddenly moved to a totally different part of the text, then this is already becoming totally ridiculous. Of course, one person like Vincent building an app from the ground up, will obviously come accross unexpected challenges. But one of the biggest IT companies in the world, with the worlds leading programmers employed, having as its mission to connect people, and still using highly flawed disruptive software with ELEMENTARY INFORMATION HANDLING in one of their flagship products? That sounds like a joke from a sit-com. The fact that hardly anybody even mentions it makes it an even bigger joke.
Imagine that we are all living in a society where it is demanded of us to drive cars a certain distance every day. And that the department making the roads, unfortunately made an error in their planning, making the road everyone travels on stretch longer for a ten mile loop with many bumps in the road, essentially demanding two extra hours of every day for every person, away from their families and friends and interests, simply having to wait, in a tense posture, because of the basic flaw of the road system.
Imagine that you begin a special education when you are twenty, which effectively takes ten years to finish. But because of buggy software, you need to wait ten extra years in total for the programs to do what they are supposed to do, in addition to all kinds of repetitive maintenence work you have no interest in, and reading error messages which make no sense, so therefore your education fishines when you are 40 instead of 30.
Nobody measures how much human time and energy and attention is lost in going through these cumbersome processes, all the time with eyes staring at small rectangular screens, doing stressful maintenance work with programs which were supposed to do this automatically. Not to mention what it does to the flow, to the inspiration, and the ability of people to collaborate accross vast distances in real time about important things.
Since we are exploring global challenges here, and trying to understand what prevents people from organizing and collaborating around common interests, it does seem like a vastly underestimated observation that huge parts of the world are living in ever closer symbiosis with information technologies, while these information technologies continue having elementary bugs which waste enormous amounts of precious human time and energy and attention.
Lightning fast, intuitive, simple to use and human-friendly computer systems should be a minimum requirement if we choose to live in as close a symbiosis with these machines as we are doing.
Glenn, I believe it is possible to make ourselves ill by clinging on to the idea of how we want things to be, rather than how they are. What you say sounds reasonable, and even valid and it might seem you are putting forward a way for improving things. But the feeling I am getting is one of anxiety, about loss, and time wasted etc. I'm wondering if you can just stay with what you are feeling at the moment, stay with yourself, give yourself the tender loving care you are craving. This is not easy to communicate over the Internet but I'm guessing it is the need you expressed in the last line just now, the human friendly, intuitive, simple, relationship to be yourself.
@bridgetime It's a little more difficult to do it with an onboarding context, I don't know much about it or what's needed or what the problems are, it's not that I have a ship and a lot of people who want to get onto it ;-) But with Glenn's and Sam's support and whoever else wants to actively work on this, we could start to try the library/archive thing (later enabling to mine insights and offer opportunities to get engaged eventually), I might look into it some more at the weekend with a little more time on my hand. That would be more in the "What blog serves GCC best?" discussion, not helping much the question of this discussion here, "what's the best way to invite people to collaborate?". I don't have a Facebook account, so we could either discuss more practical/technical topics (not necessarily relevant or interesting to the larger group), so we could do that in a Sutra discussion, via e-mail, blog posts, even a live chat room? [Note that I didn't find time yet to read the messages beyond bridgetime, Tuesday, August 21 at 5:38 AM, so I might reply to the newer messages some time in the future.]